Comments on: VBS and Predestination http://www.hostilelegacy.com/vbs-and-predestination/ For the edification of anyone who cares enough to call himself a Christian, for anyone who claims to walk in the commandments of Christ Jesus, for anyone who wants to follow God with all his heart, with all his soul, and with all his mind. Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:02:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: you know who I am....right? http://www.hostilelegacy.com/vbs-and-predestination/comment-page-1/#comment-8 you know who I am....right? Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:34:02 +0000 http://www.hostilelegacy.com/?p=67#comment-8 For those of you who are not sure what to think, and therefore have pliable minds(as opposed to those who are already sure and therefore will most likely not listen.)You have heard the free-will view from my esteemed fellow scholar, now you can hear the other side. Here is my own personal take on it, more heavily indoctrinated Calvinists will no doubt disagree with some of the things I am saying, but as far as my limited supply of logic can comprehend, these are my views: Premise 1: God is omnipotent. Premises 2: God is omniscient. God knew from the beginning of time who would choose him and who would not. Therefore, God is in control of who will and will not go to heaven, at least so far as that he knew beforehand who would and would not choose Him, and although He had the power to do so, did not change what people's decisions would be (although He may have, I don't know, but even if He didn't, the point stands). So far so good. Now here is where I differ from free-will people. If God knew beforehand who would choose him and who would not, it is written in stone, if I may borrow the common expression. Before we were even created, God knew whether we would go to heaven or not, and it was an unchangeable thing. Why? Because if it were a changeable thing, then God would not have been able to know beforehand what would happen. And if God did not know beforehand what would happen, then he would not be omniscient. And if God were not omniscient, then why believe that anything is true, the Bible, all the prophecy is questionable and changeable, because God would be changeable; truth can be called relative, the entire foundation for Christianity is taken away and there is no God. If God does not know what is going to happen, the entire universe could be obliterated tomorrow, the atoms themselves could come apart. I am not willing to go there. Are you still following my logic? Ok. So God is omniscient, and before the world was created, who would go to heaven and who would go to hell was a completely and utterly unchangeable thing. Another word for this is predestined. The same argument can be applied to anything. God knew it would happen before it happened, therefore, it is unchangeable, or predestined. Romans 8:29-30 is basically just Biblical proof for what I have just said. For those whom He foreknew (aka, knew beforehand) , He also predestined (aka, unchangeable) to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Bascially, those who were predestination means salvation) Ok. I know what you are thinking. This can't be right, because then why would we be held accountable for our actions? Well, I have an answer. Our choices are still are choices, even though they are unchangeable from the beginning of time. Being that I am human, and therefore have a finite mind, this seems like a paradox, and it spins around in my mind like the "chicken or the egg" dilemma. Fortunately, God is not like that. He can understand. However, I do not need to completely understand. God has given me all the information I need in the Bible. The Bible says I am responsible for my choices and actions. It also says that God has predestined some people to go to heaven and others to go to hell. I don't know how it fits together, but God does, and that is what matters. It is my job to trust that He knows what He is doing, and obey. Another thing that some people wonder is what the point of evangelism is, if predestination is true. I don't know. But I do know that Jesus commanded us to go into all the world and preach the good news. It is not my place to ask why, if God wants me to know why, He will tell me. All I have to do is obey, and trust that God can take care of the rest without my help. For those of you who are not sure what to think, and therefore have pliable minds(as opposed to those who are already sure and therefore will most likely not listen.)You have heard the free-will view from my esteemed fellow scholar, now you can hear the other side. Here is my own personal take on it, more heavily indoctrinated Calvinists will no doubt disagree with some of the things I am saying, but as far as my limited supply of logic can comprehend, these are my views:

Premise 1: God is omnipotent.
Premises 2: God is omniscient.

God knew from the beginning of time who would choose him and who would not. Therefore, God is in control of who will and will not go to heaven, at least so far as that he knew beforehand who would and would not choose Him, and although He had the power to do so, did not change what people’s decisions would be (although He may have, I don’t know, but even if He didn’t, the point stands). So far so good.
Now here is where I differ from free-will people. If God knew beforehand who would choose him and who would not, it is written in stone, if I may borrow the common expression. Before we were even created, God knew whether we would go to heaven or not, and it was an unchangeable thing. Why? Because if it were a changeable thing, then God would not have been able to know beforehand what would happen. And if God did not know beforehand what would happen, then he would not be omniscient. And if God were not omniscient, then why believe that anything is true, the Bible, all the prophecy is questionable and changeable, because God would be changeable; truth can be called relative, the entire foundation for Christianity is taken away and there is no God. If God does not know what is going to happen, the entire universe could be obliterated tomorrow, the atoms themselves could come apart. I am not willing to go there. Are you still following my logic?
Ok. So God is omniscient, and before the world was created, who would go to heaven and who would go to hell was a completely and utterly unchangeable thing. Another word for this is predestined.
The same argument can be applied to anything. God knew it would happen before it happened, therefore, it is unchangeable, or predestined.
Romans 8:29-30 is basically just Biblical proof for what I have just said.

For those whom He foreknew (aka, knew beforehand) , He also predestined (aka, unchangeable) to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Bascially, those who were predestination means salvation)

Ok. I know what you are thinking. This can’t be right, because then why would we be held accountable for our actions? Well, I have an answer.
Our choices are still are choices, even though they are unchangeable from the beginning of time. Being that I am human, and therefore have a finite mind, this seems like a paradox, and it spins around in my mind like the “chicken or the egg” dilemma. Fortunately, God is not like that. He can understand. However, I do not need to completely understand. God has given me all the information I need in the Bible. The Bible says I am responsible for my choices and actions. It also says that God has predestined some people to go to heaven and others to go to hell. I don’t know how it fits together, but God does, and that is what matters. It is my job to trust that He knows what He is doing, and obey.

Another thing that some people wonder is what the point of evangelism is, if predestination is true. I don’t know. But I do know that Jesus commanded us to go into all the world and preach the good news. It is not my place to ask why, if God wants me to know why, He will tell me. All I have to do is obey, and trust that God can take care of the rest without my help.

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