So I was having a debate on a forum today. It was about music. I gave up any kind of questionable music on September 22, 2007. That was when I became a real Christian too. But that’s an entirely another post.
*wipes brow*
Things got a little hot. I was saying how anything questionable should not be done (like listening to rock music). I THINK (think being the key word) that I was very humble. I actually wrote a pretty good post… I’ll put it here for your benefit.
The main problem I have with music is that there is even a question at all. Something happened to me on September 22, 2007 (that’s this year). I don’t know what it was, but I like to say I was enlightened, and I became a true Christian at that point. Sounds New Age, but something happened. Ever since a question came up in my mind about if music is good or not, I think I’ve leaned towards bad.
If there’s a question at all, then why should we participate in something? On that date, God empowered me and broke me away from so many bad habits and lusts that I’ve had. Like, I didn’t even feel like listening to my Breaking Benjamin cd or skillet cds. I’d been struggling with the questinon of music for like two years, and it was pretty cool what God did.
So if there’s a question at all in anything, personally, I don’t know how it can be good. If there’s the possibility that something is bad, then… it probably is. Now I’m not saying all music is evil. Some is certainly good. Just I feel that most is not good, and I don’t want to sift through the stuff and soak up the bad with the good.
I know I said this like three times already, but…
If there’s a question, why even do it?
I think that’s a decent point, right? Well, someone disagreed with me, and the person eventually ended essentially saying, "Shouldn’t you just leave it at ‘I believe this, you believe that, so leave it alone?’"
Of course I disagreed. And the person ended thinking I had a ‘I’m more holier than thou’ attitude and saying I was going to get nowhere with people. Now, I was NOT trying to convey that at all, I was just trying to… convey what I think is the truth. (A sidenote, the person is actually a very nice person, just got a little angry at that particular moment. And afterwards quickly, if a little untruthfully, said that I actually didn’t appear that way.). But maybe, when I try to convey the truth, I necessarily seem that way. Now I have no problem whatsoever thinking I’m holier than other people. I mean, who wouldn’t? But it seems like a pretty non-biblical idea, right?
Well, maybe not so much. I think that it’s obvious there will be a heirarchy of sorts in heaven, and some people will be honored more than others. That’s just how things work. According to what you did in life. So this brings about the quesion, "Is there such a thing as a better Christian?"
I apologize, but I have to run now. I will update this post after Logic class.
*UPDATE*
Alright, done with Logic. So. Where was I. Ah yes. Is there such a thing as a ‘better Christian’ so to speak? I think there is in one sense, and there isn’t another. It all depends on how you define Christian. You can define a Christian as someone who is saved, and in this sense, you can’t be more saved than another person. But you can be better within the realm of everything else. I haven so many ideas running around in my head about theological questions and answers that I haven’t really been posting on them lately. I think mostly cause I haven’t come to any definitive answers yet. But me and my friend had a major breakthrough like a week ago. Love is key. NOT the mutilated definition we think of when we hear the word love. Not romantic love. Not liking. Nothing like that. More like what God is. Bound together by love. So I know this post kind of rambled on… and didn’t get anywhere… but I will try to post soon. Well. Next week soon.
yes, but there *is* a point where, you agree to disagree.
You’re, what, 15? Caleb? You’ve probablly heard this way too much in the past couple weeks, but, you ARE ONLY that old. ANd you don’t have the right to just state what you think the bible is conveying. It’s (how to put it nicely), not a smart way to go about with throwing your beliefs out there.
And even though you’ve said you’re open to hearing other peoples opinions/and/or accepting them, your hard headedness has proved otherwise. YOu just state what you think is the truth, and I’m not quite sure how you do it, but they way you say it is so, “I have the only right way here people, I know what I’m talking about, not listening to you. YOu listen to me, and I don’t want to hear anything else, cause I already know that your way is wrong.”
or something like that. I might be taking it wrongly, but that’s why people get so angry with you. You say you’re willing to listen/accept. But you really arn’t.
Looks like another fight…great. Ok Caleb, here’s what I think. What is it about this music (Skillet) that you feel doesn’t align with the Bible? I personally like Skillet, I don’t feel anything contradictory in their music. It’s just a new generation of music. I don’t think it’s hurting your testimony by listening to it, and you’re certainly not bringing any bad consequences upon yourself or anyone else. And it’s certainly not an “age-appropriate” material, meaning that anyone could listen to it without any fears of hearing something bad… I really don’t see the problem here.
Daniel, Caleb feels that if there’s a question as to whether something might possibly be wrong, then its better to avoid it. And another thing, if I understand him correctly, is that the very music itself, regardless of lyrics can be wrong. (Caleb, if I’m not understanding, be sure and tell me, k?) So the music of Skillet could be detrimental, aside from the lyrics.
Caleb, we need you to come back and explain this better!!! I’m not good at explaining it!
there is absolutely nothing wrong with rock music, despite the fact that Darian didn’t listen to M88 for the longest time because of you, the Bible actually tells us to rejoice and if its not with music that’s a little harder or faster there shouldn’t be a problem.
Darian, yes, I agree with you. If your conscience is telling you that something is wrong with a situation, then don’t do it, even if others say that it’s ok. Once you disobey your conscience over little things, it will become much easier to disobey it over much more important situations.
I’m not sure how the music in and of itself is detrimental or demeaning towards God. I mean, Skillet does have worship songs, are those songs bad too? There are some things that neither glorify God nor de-glorify God. Take driving, for example. Can you really glorify or de-glorify God by driving? I don’t really think so, but does that mean you shouldn’t do it? No, because you have to drive to get places, it’s a fact of life. I could think of some other examples too…like checking your email. Does that necessarily glorify or de-glorify God? No, there really is nothing about it…yet we still need to do it in our daily lives to communicate with friends, family, and co-workers.
Now, to sum this up, I don’t necessarily think that you shouldn’t do something just because it doesn’t glorify God. If it de-glorifies him, then no, don’t do it…but if it does neither, then it’s your choice. I like listening to Skillet because I think they have good music. Their most recent album, Comatose, references God – songs like Rebirthing, Comatose, Whispers in the Dark, etc. I don’t really think that they de-glorify God, and I like the way Skillet plays music, so I have no problem listening to it. I hope that this helps…
True, there is nothing wrong with some things in and of themselves, and yet there may be a problem with our attitudes in doing them. So checking email is not inherently good or evil, but it can be if, for example, we are doing it instead of schoolwork (a major temptation for me!)then it would be wrong. Bt you are right, the things themselves do not have in and of themselves a sinful or non-sinful nature.
Wow, this is a fun conversation…
Additionally, as far as the music itself, I believe its the problemm with rock in general, which has been scietifically proven to be physically and mentally detrimental…I think…don’t quote me on that, but thats what Caleb says…
Anyway, so healthwise that would be a reason to not to listen to rock, and since the bible says we are to take care of our bodies, since the are the temples of God, then not takeing care of our bodies would be sin, right? So if the initial premise that rock is bad healthwise is true, that would make listening to rock sin, regardless of the lyrics.
As far as proving the premise, I havent reasearched it extensively, but Caleb has…hopefully he will be able to explain it when he gets back. 2 more days…only 2 more days…
Darian, I’d have to see the research first to believe it. I don’t know if it’s really the music or how loud some kids play it. But if we’re going to get specific here and anything that harms your body in some way is a sin, then drinking doffee would be a sin too…Mountain Dew has several ingredients in it like brominated vegetable oil and sodium benzoate that can be quite harmful to your body. The same could be said of any number of other foods with the additives and preservatives used today. Does this mean that we shouldn’t eat any of these? No, I don’t think so. It’s all about motive. When I listen to rock music like Skillet or TFK I enjoy it and it puts me in a good mood. I can’t say if there is anything about it being physically detrimental, but it doesn’t really affect my mind (i.e. as in being depressed, demoralized, etc.)
I totally agree with you Daniel. I was merely attempting to explain what Caleb thinks since he isn’t here. I probably didn’t get it right, because i don’t entirely understand, but it was an attempt. Personally, I love Skillet and TFK and Family Force 5, and all that, and they do help me to like center my focus back on God. At least…most songs…some songs are just a musical incarnation of happy hyperness, which is why I like them, but isn’t joy something God gives us? So I think even that is good.
And how did you know about doffee, just out of curiousity?
Yes, I like that music too, it certainly is inspiring. I guess we’ll just have to wait for Caleb to get back to sort this out. How do I know about doffee?… I know things…lots of things.
I kind of agree with what Havilah said at the beginning. But I think we agree for the most part at least on the fudamentals. Though on this subject we differ slightly. I think that this is one of the things that is a personal decision. I don’t think there is a requirement anywhere about it. I would be willing to submit that almost all popular secular music is bad and I might even say a sin, but as far as hard christian music such as skillet. I would say it depends on the person. Some people struggle with certain music types, I don’t think they are wrong. They are still talking about God and I don’t believe that it makes it wrong because of the style of music.